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Diagnosing ARB air leaks

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41 replies to this topic

#21
Desertcrawler

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Couple Questions:

1)How often do diffs fail? In the 10 years I've had my Rover, 6 with ARB lockers, I've never had a diff break. So while I like the idea, I need to balance the investment in $ versus the reward. Seems like on my rig, the weak point is always the driveshaft going out.

2)Does my lower gearing (GBS 4:11 gears) impact the likelihood of a diff failure? Or does it increase it? Or am I asking an unrelated question..
Chuck (KI6WSR)
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3" RTE Lift,Bilstein Shocks, GBR 4:11s gears, Rovertym bumpers front & rear, 2 IPF HID lights , rear work lights, custom sliders, diff guards, gas tank protector. Warn 9600 winch, synthetic rope, 285/75/16 tyres, Brownchurch rack, CDL Linkage, Heavy duty drive shafts, ARB air lockers, heavy duty rear axles & front CV joints from GBR. Ham & CB radio

#22
psykokid

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Stock diffs, it's a crap shoot. The stock two pin Rover diff isnt known for it's robustness. I had my rear one fail and much the spiders in the diff just driving down the street one day..

ARB's are pretty solid since they are a 4 pinion diff versus the stock 2 pinion. On the RD56's like we have the plastic cage that holds everything together can fail if shock loaded. Not sure on the RD128, I think lutzi had a problem with one of his and had it fixed under warranty. Ashcroft air locker has fixed some of the problems with the ARB RD128 design, to my knowledge they've had no failures..

ATB diffs like Ashcroft ATB, Truetrac, and Quaife you'd have to pop an axle shaft usually for something to go..

Generally if everything is nice and tight, bearings are in good shape, and you stay up on gear oil changes you *shouldnt* have any problems. If you were to peg your diff you pretty much remove one of the last remaining failure points in the system, baring something catastrophic giving way.

#23
TigerDan

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In regards to pegging here's an opinion on that quoted from a thread I found on Pirate:

"I started pegging the 4 pinion diffs on my old 6x6 in the early 80's with no success. If you already have a 4 pinion diff ie, Maxidrive, McNamara, ARB etc, then it is my experience that pegging doesn't offer any advantages. It would help a little with the stock open 2 pinion carrier however. The generally more rigid nature of 4 pinion carriers virtually eliminates geartrain deflection compared to the much less rigid stock carrier'and Rover type ring and pinions aren't strong enough to make a 4 pinion carrier flex."

This is two separate posts condensed into one. Also, I seem to recall that Ron pegged his diffs when he built up his Classic, though it seems to me that it was a simpler setup than Ashcroft's kit that used a bolt through the housing locked into place with the bolt sitting a couple thousandths away from the back of the ring gear so that there was no actual contact until there was enough flex to move the ring gear and then the bolt would then keep it from moving any further. Just took a quick look and it seems that this GBR's method. Here's a thread about it:

http://landroverforu...assembly-70649/

That said, I can't recall ever talking to anyone who has ever had a diff failure from flex like this. I might try it sometime just for a little extra insurance when building up a diff but wouldn't go out of my way to take mine apart and do this mod at this point. Maybe with lower gearing, bigger tires and more power it could become more conceivable.

As for sealing up the air line fittings, teflon tape or thread sealer won't do much, if anything, on this type connection. Those products are for use with tapered threads where the threads themselves actually create the seal, and these are a compression fitting where the seal is made by a brass compression sleeve which compresses around the line sealing it as you tighten the nut. Similarly, you don't need to seal the threads on things like brake lines where the seal is made by a tapered flare. If it leaks, tighten it till it doesn't. If it won't stop leaking at that point then you either have a cracked line or some sort of defect in the seat or taper and thread sealer isn't going to help. I see thread sealant used inappropriately all the time when working on other people's repairs. And don't even get me started on silicone sealant misuse...!

Edited by TigerDan, 14 January 2015 - 01:02 PM.

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#24
DHappel

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Oh come on, everybody knows the answer to leaks of any sort is always more silicon. it's the magic wonder-compound.

I'm thinking I'm going to get some as-seen-on-tv flex-seal and just start randomly spraying it on leaks. Gay-ron-teed to fix any leak!

Don
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#25
Desertcrawler

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Ok so it's now time to start tearing down both diffs. Plan is to tear them down and then take em to Cerronnes for diagnosis and repair. Step 1 was to jack up all 4 wheels and then remove them. With my rig I also need to remove the spacers. biggest Pita so far is those nuts getting stuck in my air tool....


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Chuck (KI6WSR)
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3" RTE Lift,Bilstein Shocks, GBR 4:11s gears, Rovertym bumpers front & rear, 2 IPF HID lights , rear work lights, custom sliders, diff guards, gas tank protector. Warn 9600 winch, synthetic rope, 285/75/16 tyres, Brownchurch rack, CDL Linkage, Heavy duty drive shafts, ARB air lockers, heavy duty rear axles & front CV joints from GBR. Ham & CB radio

#26
Desertcrawler

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Posted ImagePosted Image


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Chuck (KI6WSR)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
3" RTE Lift,Bilstein Shocks, GBR 4:11s gears, Rovertym bumpers front & rear, 2 IPF HID lights , rear work lights, custom sliders, diff guards, gas tank protector. Warn 9600 winch, synthetic rope, 285/75/16 tyres, Brownchurch rack, CDL Linkage, Heavy duty drive shafts, ARB air lockers, heavy duty rear axles & front CV joints from GBR. Ham & CB radio

#27
TigerDan

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I hate those spacers...and I think they're not very fond of me either!
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#28
lutz

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Replacing o rings is vary easy but if you plan on taking them in .I would be tempted to replace the plastic cage with the metal one.

KK6QGU
04 Discovery 2-Trail truck- RTE 3in with fox 2.0 shocks, $g rear cones ,$G front bumper with Warn XD9000i custom rear,ARB's air lockers F&R with Ashcroft 4.12 w/reverse cut front , Ashcroft HD axles/CV's, RTE diff guards F&R , Max Yedor HD tie rod and track rod,custom watts, 255/85-16 MAXXIS MT-762 BIGHORN

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http://www.pacificadventuretours.com/


#29
Desertcrawler

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2 of the spacer nuts are frozen on. Broke two craftsman sockets so far fighting em. Picked up these to help me battle better in the morning since the nuts are now roundedPosted Image


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Chuck (KI6WSR)
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3" RTE Lift,Bilstein Shocks, GBR 4:11s gears, Rovertym bumpers front & rear, 2 IPF HID lights , rear work lights, custom sliders, diff guards, gas tank protector. Warn 9600 winch, synthetic rope, 285/75/16 tyres, Brownchurch rack, CDL Linkage, Heavy duty drive shafts, ARB air lockers, heavy duty rear axles & front CV joints from GBR. Ham & CB radio

#30
DHappel

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I don't know how good the Craftsman version of those sockets are, but I've had good luck with that style when all else has failed.

Don
'07 LR3 HSE/HD - slightly non-stock

'96 D1 - even more non-stock


#31
Desertcrawler

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Lutz -- good idea but hard to source. Sounds like Ashcroft only did a limited run. Do you know of others?


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Chuck (KI6WSR)
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3" RTE Lift,Bilstein Shocks, GBR 4:11s gears, Rovertym bumpers front & rear, 2 IPF HID lights , rear work lights, custom sliders, diff guards, gas tank protector. Warn 9600 winch, synthetic rope, 285/75/16 tyres, Brownchurch rack, CDL Linkage, Heavy duty drive shafts, ARB air lockers, heavy duty rear axles & front CV joints from GBR. Ham & CB radio

#32
lutz

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That sucks didn't know Ashcroft stop making them.

KK6QGU
04 Discovery 2-Trail truck- RTE 3in with fox 2.0 shocks, $g rear cones ,$G front bumper with Warn XD9000i custom rear,ARB's air lockers F&R with Ashcroft 4.12 w/reverse cut front , Ashcroft HD axles/CV's, RTE diff guards F&R , Max Yedor HD tie rod and track rod,custom watts, 255/85-16 MAXXIS MT-762 BIGHORN

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http://www.pacificadventuretours.com/


#33
Desertcrawler

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    Chuck (NCLR025)

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Posted Image

%#€><£*^%#> lug nuts!!!!


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Chuck (KI6WSR)
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3" RTE Lift,Bilstein Shocks, GBR 4:11s gears, Rovertym bumpers front & rear, 2 IPF HID lights , rear work lights, custom sliders, diff guards, gas tank protector. Warn 9600 winch, synthetic rope, 285/75/16 tyres, Brownchurch rack, CDL Linkage, Heavy duty drive shafts, ARB air lockers, heavy duty rear axles & front CV joints from GBR. Ham & CB radio

#34
lutz

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Yikes time to bring out the acetylene. If it comes to that you can use p38 wheel studs

Edited by lutz, 18 January 2015 - 07:43 PM.

KK6QGU
04 Discovery 2-Trail truck- RTE 3in with fox 2.0 shocks, $g rear cones ,$G front bumper with Warn XD9000i custom rear,ARB's air lockers F&R with Ashcroft 4.12 w/reverse cut front , Ashcroft HD axles/CV's, RTE diff guards F&R , Max Yedor HD tie rod and track rod,custom watts, 255/85-16 MAXXIS MT-762 BIGHORN

99 Discovery 2 -Parts truck

2008 lr3

http://www.pacificadventuretours.com/


#35
DHappel

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crap - even with the extractor it wouldn't come out eh?

torch - oil - torch - oil - torch, repeat, then hammer on the tightest extractor you can make fit and hit it with an impact instead of just a breaker bar. Hopefully you'll get lucky.

I prefer PB Blaster or Kroil for penetrating oil, though I've heard people have good luck with a mix of ATF and kerosene as well.

Don
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#36
psykokid

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They also make a lug nut remover tool that has closer internal reverse threads which cut into the stuck lug nut a lot better. I had to use one on the only anti theft lug on my wife's passat. With a breaker bar they are crap.. you really need an impact to get the force necessary to get it to break loose.

here's a link to the ones I used : http://www.pepboys.c...OnlyStore=false

Id heat cherry hot with a torch first, then spray with some Kroil or PB Blaster like David said.. Kroil is better imho..

#37
TomOwen

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Lug nut? Looks like a retaining bolt of some sort no?

:lr:
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#38
Desertcrawler

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It's actually a lug nut that is stuck, screwed onto the stock lug bolts on the front wheel assembly. It is holding an aluminum spacer. Because the nut is so recessed and tight, cutting it off won't work.

Because it has to be removed to remove the rotor, I am pretty sure I can't remove Wheel Assembly without taking off the aluminum spacer -- but need to figure that out...

Cost of a new spacer is $500 (they only come in sets of 4).

Lug Bolts can't be replaced individually on the D2.

Luckily I have another wheel assembly on a donor vehicle. Plan is to either drill out the two offending lug nuts, or to figure out a way to grind away the lug from behind so it can be removed (don't think this is possible cause of space though unless I can remove wheel without removing the spacer). Not sure that is possible but going to try.

Then put new wheel assembly on - and be back in business...


Lug nut? Looks like a retaining bolt of some sort no?


Edited by Desertcrawler, 20 January 2015 - 09:36 AM.

Chuck (KI6WSR)
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3" RTE Lift,Bilstein Shocks, GBR 4:11s gears, Rovertym bumpers front & rear, 2 IPF HID lights , rear work lights, custom sliders, diff guards, gas tank protector. Warn 9600 winch, synthetic rope, 285/75/16 tyres, Brownchurch rack, CDL Linkage, Heavy duty drive shafts, ARB air lockers, heavy duty rear axles & front CV joints from GBR. Ham & CB radio

#39
lutz

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The lug bolts can be replace individual. You just have to order range rover p38 ones. I had to do it on my rover when one of mine snaped.

KK6QGU
04 Discovery 2-Trail truck- RTE 3in with fox 2.0 shocks, $g rear cones ,$G front bumper with Warn XD9000i custom rear,ARB's air lockers F&R with Ashcroft 4.12 w/reverse cut front , Ashcroft HD axles/CV's, RTE diff guards F&R , Max Yedor HD tie rod and track rod,custom watts, 255/85-16 MAXXIS MT-762 BIGHORN

99 Discovery 2 -Parts truck

2008 lr3

http://www.pacificadventuretours.com/


#40
Desertcrawler

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How did you get the bad lug nut out? Drill it or grind away at the back of it?
Chuck (KI6WSR)
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
3" RTE Lift,Bilstein Shocks, GBR 4:11s gears, Rovertym bumpers front & rear, 2 IPF HID lights , rear work lights, custom sliders, diff guards, gas tank protector. Warn 9600 winch, synthetic rope, 285/75/16 tyres, Brownchurch rack, CDL Linkage, Heavy duty drive shafts, ARB air lockers, heavy duty rear axles & front CV joints from GBR. Ham & CB radio




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