Jump to content

Welcome to NCLR - Northern California Land Rover Club
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. This message will be removed once you have signed in.
Login to Account Create an Account
Photo

Today on 'how to keep your LR3 happy'...

- - - - - LR3 repair suspension failure EAS

  • Please log in to reply
29 replies to this topic

#1
DHappel

DHappel

    NCLR Trip Ambassador

  • NCLR BOD Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,093 posts
  • Walnut Grove, CA
  • KK6TBH
  • '07 LR3 with stuff
  • '96 D1 Roadster
  • '94 RRC
  • '96 D1

Prepping the LR3 for next week's SlickRock trip (Arnold, CA in the calendar).

 

The agenda calls for rebuilding my old Hitachi suspension compressor and swapping it into the truck so I can T/S my new(er) AMK compressor at my leisure.  However despite Amazon saying the parts are due in today, they have not yet arrived.

 

I will also be replacing the passenger front wheel sensor and resetting my ride heights with the GAP IId tool.  I have the part but have not yet done the change.  More on that later.

 

While I was looking at the sensor with the truck in the air, I noticed that the upper control arm has been scraping the aluminum air bag housing.  Hmmmm....looks fresh too.  Only making contact at full droop.  I wonder what has changed?

 

20150410_181936_zpsqjq8x6uo.jpg

 

Went ahead and pulled the tire off and jacked the suspension up a bit for better access. When I crawled under it I noticed my swaybar was no longer connected and the end link had gone AWOL.  Well, I guess that explains my bonus suspension travel!

 

Here's where it USED to be attached:

 

20150410_182340_zpscuu1pybq.jpg

 

20150410_182553_zpsibnquhyb.jpg

 

Here's the other side for comparison

 

20150410_182539_zpsdb4uisqp.jpg

 

It's a little late to call tonight, but I've got a PM in to Justin.  Hopefully he has an end link at his place I can pick up in the morning.

 


  • RedRover likes this

Don
'07 LR3 HSE/HD - slightly non-stock

'96 D1 - even more non-stock


#2
DHappel

DHappel

    NCLR Trip Ambassador

  • NCLR BOD Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,093 posts
  • Walnut Grove, CA
  • KK6TBH
  • '07 LR3 with stuff
  • '96 D1 Roadster
  • '94 RRC
  • '96 D1

I do recall hearing a bit of a 'bang' late in the day at Hollister last weekend.  After everybody had left I made another run up Truck Hill.  I didn't notice anything at the time and since my suspension was giving me grief I drove pretty easy on the way home and haven't driven it since.  My guess is that's when I lost it.

 

I wonder if this also damaged the height sensor when it let go.  When the UCA droops this much it gets awfully close to hitting the sensor.  I'll give the wiring a good going-over while I'm in there.  At a minimum, it seems suspicious to have two problems develop at the same time on the same corner.


Don
'07 LR3 HSE/HD - slightly non-stock

'96 D1 - even more non-stock


#3
DHappel

DHappel

    NCLR Trip Ambassador

  • NCLR BOD Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,093 posts
  • Walnut Grove, CA
  • KK6TBH
  • '07 LR3 with stuff
  • '96 D1 Roadster
  • '94 RRC
  • '96 D1

To access the suspension compressor I have to drop the driver's side slider.  As long as I've got it off, might as well clean it up and paint it.  I picked up some Rustoleum 'Rust Reformer' and gave it a blast.  I wasn't too bad as I had painted it less than 6 mo ago.

 

20150410_185558_zpseficup05.jpg

 

(note it is upside down in the pic)


Edited by DHappel, 10 April 2015 - 06:03 PM.

Don
'07 LR3 HSE/HD - slightly non-stock

'96 D1 - even more non-stock


#4
DHappel

DHappel

    NCLR Trip Ambassador

  • NCLR BOD Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,093 posts
  • Walnut Grove, CA
  • KK6TBH
  • '07 LR3 with stuff
  • '96 D1 Roadster
  • '94 RRC
  • '96 D1

And as long as I'm taking off armor, it's about time I addressed the transfer case skid.  I sort of banana'ed it when I took my wild ride down the hill at Frank Raines a couple months ago.

 

20150410_113941_zpsmo9rvk4v.jpg

 

again, upside down in the pic


Edited by DHappel, 10 April 2015 - 06:06 PM.

Don
'07 LR3 HSE/HD - slightly non-stock

'96 D1 - even more non-stock


#5
DHappel

DHappel

    NCLR Trip Ambassador

  • NCLR BOD Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,093 posts
  • Walnut Grove, CA
  • KK6TBH
  • '07 LR3 with stuff
  • '96 D1 Roadster
  • '94 RRC
  • '96 D1

Given that this is a fairly stout piece of steel, how to straighten it out?  I tried running over it with Hello Kitty but as expected, this had no effect.  I contemplated asking the neighbor if I could use the bucket on his tractor but figured I'd leave that for a last ditch effort.  Instead, I placed 2x6s strategically under it and wailed on it with a 12 lb sledge.  Oh yeah, you'll want some ear protection if you try that!

 

After no doubt causing a good deal of concern throughout the neighborhood, she was more or less straight again.  I'll still have to get under the truck and straighten out some of the mountings points though.

 

20150410_180751_zpsby8ifqpc.jpg


  • RedRover and erinw.rrc like this

Don
'07 LR3 HSE/HD - slightly non-stock

'96 D1 - even more non-stock


#6
GraemeWare

GraemeWare

    general old hooligan

  • NCLR Club Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,029 posts

Don,

 

Could you take a caliper over the skid plate and the sliders?  I'd be interested to find out what gauge they are using.

 

Graeme


Graeme Ware -- San Carlos, CA

1990 Range Rover Classic - LT230 Transfer box, Warn winch, 2" lift, 235/85-16 Dunlop MUD Rovers, "Blue Submarine"
1996 Discovery 1 (R380 Manual Transmission, Ashcroft under-drive, RoverWare rear bumper, 33x12.5-15 BFG ATs) -- we call her "Katrina" -- Fordyce 7.5 mile survivor
1999 Discovery 2 (D1 CDL Linkage, 265/75-16 BFG A/T KO, RoverWare front and rear bumper)
1993 Jaguar XJS convertible; 1971 Triumph GT6; 1959 Morris Minor convertible
other assorted British pot metal ...


#7
DHappel

DHappel

    NCLR Trip Ambassador

  • NCLR BOD Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,093 posts
  • Walnut Grove, CA
  • KK6TBH
  • '07 LR3 with stuff
  • '96 D1 Roadster
  • '94 RRC
  • '96 D1

I show about .18", so that should be 3/16" I'd say.  It is dark out and there's at least a couple layers of paint on the thing, so maybe not super-accurate but close enough.

 

Both of them look to be the same stock.  1/4" might be nice, but they're bloody heavy already!  I haven't damaged the sliders yet and I've landed the truck on them on rocks a time or three.  And well, you were there when I tried to play General Lee with the LR3 and bent the transfer case skid.


Edited by DHappel, 13 April 2015 - 04:59 PM.

Don
'07 LR3 HSE/HD - slightly non-stock

'96 D1 - even more non-stock


#8
DHappel

DHappel

    NCLR Trip Ambassador

  • NCLR BOD Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,093 posts
  • Walnut Grove, CA
  • KK6TBH
  • '07 LR3 with stuff
  • '96 D1 Roadster
  • '94 RRC
  • '96 D1

Well.....strike one on the suspension errors.

 

I was taking it easy on the repairs this weekend - I figured just swap the sensor and reset my ride height and I'd be done.  No need to rush, it's an easy enough job.

 

So today I picked up a new sway bar end link from Justin at British Recyclers, then did some errands in town, then took nap, then installed the new link and sensor and did the calibration.  All good.  Take it for a test drive and within 2 miles it throws a suspension fault and dumps me on the bumpstops.  Nice.

 

The errors are now coming from 3 of the wheel sensors, including the one I just replaced.  So back to square one I guess. 

 

Given that I have tomorrow to fix this or I don't make it to Slick Rock next weekend, I'm very open to ideas. 

 

Whatcha got?


Don
'07 LR3 HSE/HD - slightly non-stock

'96 D1 - even more non-stock


#9
GraemeWare

GraemeWare

    general old hooligan

  • NCLR Club Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,029 posts

Whatcha got?

 

Don,

 

Springs .. that's what I've got ....

 

Graeme


Graeme Ware -- San Carlos, CA

1990 Range Rover Classic - LT230 Transfer box, Warn winch, 2" lift, 235/85-16 Dunlop MUD Rovers, "Blue Submarine"
1996 Discovery 1 (R380 Manual Transmission, Ashcroft under-drive, RoverWare rear bumper, 33x12.5-15 BFG ATs) -- we call her "Katrina" -- Fordyce 7.5 mile survivor
1999 Discovery 2 (D1 CDL Linkage, 265/75-16 BFG A/T KO, RoverWare front and rear bumper)
1993 Jaguar XJS convertible; 1971 Triumph GT6; 1959 Morris Minor convertible
other assorted British pot metal ...


#10
ndamico

ndamico

    KK6TBF

  • NCLR Club Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,183 posts
  • Sacramento, CA
  • KK6TBF
  • 2010 LR4
  • 1995 RRC LWB
What if you hook up the old sensor. What's it do then? Perhaps a common ground problem between sensors?

Nick

2010 LR4 HSE-Lux/HD. Compos w/ Toyo Open County AT2 265/65R18, IIDTool, Baja Rack.

1995 RRC LWB.  3" RTE Lift/Bumpers, 7100SB Shocks, 255x85R16 Toyo MT's, Mantec Snorkel, Ashcroft Lockers/Axles/CV's/4.12 Gears, GBR Driveshafts & Thrust Bolts, LT230, QT Diff Guards, Voyager Rack, Winch, Sliders, Dual Batteries, ARB Twin Compressor, Kenwood D710G HAM Radio, Xantrex Inverter, Swing Away & Sliders.

 

My Rover Pics


#11
RedRover

RedRover

    NCLR Club Member

  • NCLR Web Administrator
  • 3,401 posts
  • Santa Clara, CA
  • KJ6MQI
  • 1992 Range Rover Classic
  • 2012 Range Rover
  • 2012 Land Rover LR4

Well.....strike one on the suspension errors.

 

I was taking it easy on the repairs this weekend - I figured just swap the sensor and reset my ride height and I'd be done.  No need to rush, it's an easy enough job.

 

So today I picked up a new sway bar end link from Justin at British Recyclers, then did some errands in town, then took nap, then installed the new link and sensor and did the calibration.  All good.  Take it for a test drive and within 2 miles it throws a suspension fault and dumps me on the bumpstops.  Nice.

 

The errors are now coming from 3 of the wheel sensors, including the one I just replaced.  So back to square one I guess. 

 

Given that I have tomorrow to fix this or I don't make it to Slick Rock next weekend, I'm very open to ideas. 

 

Whatcha got?

 

Hey Don,

 

Are you getting any other error messages for transmission fault, HDC, etc.?


Jared (KJ6MQI)
1992 Range Rover Classic - Portofino Red
2012 Range Rover HSE - Santorini Black

 


#12
DHappel

DHappel

    NCLR Trip Ambassador

  • NCLR BOD Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,093 posts
  • Walnut Grove, CA
  • KK6TBH
  • '07 LR3 with stuff
  • '96 D1 Roadster
  • '94 RRC
  • '96 D1

Generally only the suspension fault.  Once or twice I've gotten a headlight fault as well but not normally. 

 

When you get a lot of random errors on these trucks people usually point at a couple of things.  1st, the brake light switch and 2nd, the battery.  I ordered a brake light switch last week just because they are cheap and easy to change, but of course it hasn't arrived yet.  The battery has given no signs of being tired as it starts the truck easily even after sitting for a week at a time or when running the fridge overnight in hot weather like the annual or pulling the truck up a hill on the winch.  People generally can't provide any cause and effect to link these two items with specific failures, they just use them as generic catch-alls for anything electrical.  I hate to blindly throw expensive parts at it like a battery, and of course I don't have a battery on-hand anyway. 

 

I do suspect some sort of common issue between the sensors of course, though I don't think it will be a ground (could be, just doesn't feel that way).  The old and new sensor give the same results as far as my limited test yesterday showed. 

 

This morning I'm going to have a good look at the rear sensors just because, as well as some close monitoring of the battery voltage and maybe pull the terminals off for a cleaning even though they look fine.  I'm also thinking I'll switch back to my stock rods and go for a drive just because I can.  I don't know what that would demonstrate except that when I do get a failure it shouldn't send the sensors out of range when on the bumps so it will be easier to recover from it with the GAP tool.  I've also reached out to Ted via PM to see if he might have anything to suggest as he's the closest LR3 owner to me.

 

 

Unfortunately I don't have a lot of time to resolve this.  I got lazy assuming I knew what it was and now I'm out of time.  I can't even take it to somebody as both Michele and I are leaving in the morning and won't be back until Thursday night.  I could break away and come home one night this week since I'll just be down in the bay, but by the time I'd get home it would be too late to go anywhere plus of course I live out in the boonies so I'd need somebody to go with me to act as a shuttle.

 

Well, back at it!


Don
'07 LR3 HSE/HD - slightly non-stock

'96 D1 - even more non-stock


#13
DHappel

DHappel

    NCLR Trip Ambassador

  • NCLR BOD Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,093 posts
  • Walnut Grove, CA
  • KK6TBH
  • '07 LR3 with stuff
  • '96 D1 Roadster
  • '94 RRC
  • '96 D1

Checked the battery voltage this morning before starting.  12.35v  Maybe not super (would like to see 12.4) but certainly not bad.  Running at idle 14.4v, but with the wacky alternators on these trucks I'd expect to see anything from about 13 to 15 depending on the mood the computers are in.

 

Went ahead and pulled the battery connections and they didn't look bad at all as expected.  Cleaned them anyway and put back together.  Then I stuck the stock rods on and went for a drive.  Within a mile of getting to highway speed I got the 'red' suspension fault, special programs disabled, and it dropped to the bumpstops.  I plugged in the GAP tool and this time had 5 suspension errors.  Each of the wheel sensors and a cross link valve.  I cleared them and re-inflated to normal drive height and came back home.

 

Of note, it's not happened at low speeds like a parking lot, only highway speeds.  I haven't tried it at medium, say 40mph.

 

:angry:


Don
'07 LR3 HSE/HD - slightly non-stock

'96 D1 - even more non-stock


#14
GraemeWare

GraemeWare

    general old hooligan

  • NCLR Club Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,029 posts

 I plugged in the GAP tool and this time had 5 suspension errors.  Each of the wheel sensors and a cross link valve.  I cleared them and re-inflated to normal drive height and came back home.

 

Of note, it's not happened at low speeds like a parking lot, only highway speeds.  I haven't tried it at medium, say 40mph.

 

:angry:

 

Don,

 

I know people in the UK that have struggled for months with the problems.  Dealers have been known to make it worse by mounting the new sensors wrongly, or even using the wrong ones (not your case, obviously).  The cross-link valve is one of the fist stages of fail safe (it opens and equalizes the two bag pressures).  Can be caused by a slight leaky airbag I'm told ... and by a bad compressor (why I don't know).  Is your compressor on more than normal?  I've also heard of burnt controller PCBs ...but it is all hearsay I'm afraid.

 

There is a 30A (?) ECU fuse that can be pulled once the car is at driving height and apparently that will stop it dropping ....

 

Graeme


Graeme Ware -- San Carlos, CA

1990 Range Rover Classic - LT230 Transfer box, Warn winch, 2" lift, 235/85-16 Dunlop MUD Rovers, "Blue Submarine"
1996 Discovery 1 (R380 Manual Transmission, Ashcroft under-drive, RoverWare rear bumper, 33x12.5-15 BFG ATs) -- we call her "Katrina" -- Fordyce 7.5 mile survivor
1999 Discovery 2 (D1 CDL Linkage, 265/75-16 BFG A/T KO, RoverWare front and rear bumper)
1993 Jaguar XJS convertible; 1971 Triumph GT6; 1959 Morris Minor convertible
other assorted British pot metal ...


#15
DHappel

DHappel

    NCLR Trip Ambassador

  • NCLR BOD Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,093 posts
  • Walnut Grove, CA
  • KK6TBH
  • '07 LR3 with stuff
  • '96 D1 Roadster
  • '94 RRC
  • '96 D1

I've been tracing wiring on the theory that I could have a broken wire after the RF sensor.  Haven't found anything suspicious.  I may end up pushing my Sausalito meeting back to noon and trying to drop the thing off at the Sac dealer when they open at 7:30.  I can force it to stay inflated with the GAP tool by putting it in 'build' mode so I can get it there at least.  Of course I have no way to know if they can get to it this week or if they're actually going to be able to fix it.  I only have marginal confidence in Sac LR, but they're the closest by a good margin.

 

Those coils are starting to look more and more inviting. 

(only kidding)

(sort of)


Don
'07 LR3 HSE/HD - slightly non-stock

'96 D1 - even more non-stock


#16
DHappel

DHappel

    NCLR Trip Ambassador

  • NCLR BOD Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,093 posts
  • Walnut Grove, CA
  • KK6TBH
  • '07 LR3 with stuff
  • '96 D1 Roadster
  • '94 RRC
  • '96 D1

BTW, mount the sensors wrongly?  Not much you can do wrong there...no adjustments and 2 screws. 


Don
'07 LR3 HSE/HD - slightly non-stock

'96 D1 - even more non-stock


#17
ndamico

ndamico

    KK6TBF

  • NCLR Club Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,183 posts
  • Sacramento, CA
  • KK6TBF
  • 2010 LR4
  • 1995 RRC LWB
If you think you need a battery I have the one I pulled out of my LR for a month ago when I put an AGM battery in it. It isn't very old. You are welcome to it

Nick

2010 LR4 HSE-Lux/HD. Compos w/ Toyo Open County AT2 265/65R18, IIDTool, Baja Rack.

1995 RRC LWB.  3" RTE Lift/Bumpers, 7100SB Shocks, 255x85R16 Toyo MT's, Mantec Snorkel, Ashcroft Lockers/Axles/CV's/4.12 Gears, GBR Driveshafts & Thrust Bolts, LT230, QT Diff Guards, Voyager Rack, Winch, Sliders, Dual Batteries, ARB Twin Compressor, Kenwood D710G HAM Radio, Xantrex Inverter, Swing Away & Sliders.

 

My Rover Pics


#18
GraemeWare

GraemeWare

    general old hooligan

  • NCLR Club Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,029 posts

BTW, mount the sensors wrongly?  Not much you can do wrong there...no adjustments and 2 screws. 

 

Don,

 

Some have two screw holes, some three, and some dealers can't work out which to use .... there is a service bulletin about it .... and the modified sensors.  I also read somewhere a while ago that you should not mix an old style and new style sensor on an axle (so both fronts or both rears need changing).  Sounds unlikely to me, but I read it somewhere.

 

If they are just a potentiometer (my guess) then I have no idea why all four are different ..... but if they are just a pot then a couple of resistors at each corner in place of the sensor would at least rule out the sensor itself, and then you're on to wiring, CanBus (or whatever they use), and all those other things that I don't like.

 

Graeme


Edited by GraemeWare, 12 April 2015 - 05:32 PM.

Graeme Ware -- San Carlos, CA

1990 Range Rover Classic - LT230 Transfer box, Warn winch, 2" lift, 235/85-16 Dunlop MUD Rovers, "Blue Submarine"
1996 Discovery 1 (R380 Manual Transmission, Ashcroft under-drive, RoverWare rear bumper, 33x12.5-15 BFG ATs) -- we call her "Katrina" -- Fordyce 7.5 mile survivor
1999 Discovery 2 (D1 CDL Linkage, 265/75-16 BFG A/T KO, RoverWare front and rear bumper)
1993 Jaguar XJS convertible; 1971 Triumph GT6; 1959 Morris Minor convertible
other assorted British pot metal ...


#19
DHappel

DHappel

    NCLR Trip Ambassador

  • NCLR BOD Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,093 posts
  • Walnut Grove, CA
  • KK6TBH
  • '07 LR3 with stuff
  • '96 D1 Roadster
  • '94 RRC
  • '96 D1

Nick, thanks but I really don't think I need a battery.  If so, I'll do the same as you and go AGM.

 

Graeme, this is the 'new' sensor and it is slightly different but I haven't seen anything about not mixing.  The only functional difference so far as I know is the new one uses machine screws into captive threads to mount, while the old one used a tapping screw into the plastic body.  They provide the new screws w/the sensor.

 

I just got done putting everything back together and it's ready for me to break out the power tools first thing in the morning (Visa card @ the dealer).  I just don't have time to mess around with chasing a fault if I want to make Slick Rock.

 

Hopefully it won't hurt too much....lord knows I just got bent over by the IRS, there's not much blood left in this turnip.  :o


Don
'07 LR3 HSE/HD - slightly non-stock

'96 D1 - even more non-stock


#20
DHappel

DHappel

    NCLR Trip Ambassador

  • NCLR BOD Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,093 posts
  • Walnut Grove, CA
  • KK6TBH
  • '07 LR3 with stuff
  • '96 D1 Roadster
  • '94 RRC
  • '96 D1

I forgot to follow up on the resolution of this issue.

 

I called SacLR on Thursday and they said it was ready to go.  I asked if I could meet with the tech who did the work for a few minutes to discuss the repair when I picked it up Friday morning and they said no problem.  I got there and was introduced to the tech (forgot his name of course) but didn't learn much.  He said all he did was reset the ride height since the service writer had noted I'd replaced a wheel sensor.  But wait....I already did that. (see post 8).  I told him as much and asked for more details on how/what exactly he did explaining that I'd really like to know in case I find myself in the same situation again on the trail.  His response pretty much came down to 'I don't know....I just plugged in the computer and it did it'.

 

On the one hand I'm happy they got me in w/o an appointment and fixed the issue with minimal expense ($160 and hey, they did wash it for me).  On the other, I'm a little disappointed that the tech couldn't tell me more about what he did or what I apparently did wrong in resetting the calibration.  In this case I may well have been better off going with an indi shop as they may have had to actually 'fix' the problem instead of just having the fancy dealer computer do it for them. 

 

Regardless, I can't complain.  They did the job and the price was fair.  So thank you to SacLR.


Edited by DHappel, 20 April 2015 - 10:41 PM.

Don
'07 LR3 HSE/HD - slightly non-stock

'96 D1 - even more non-stock






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: LR3, repair, suspension, failure, EAS

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users