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bang goes the LR3

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#1
DHappel

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So today's MORG was eventful.

 

All good pretty much the entire day.  Not even a random suspension fault.  Then as we were leaving I decided to take a stab at a muddy/rutted hill climb.  Litterally about 1/4 mile from pavement.  I got maybe 50' up the hill and BANG followed by loss of drive and the engine reving high. 

 

What the hell was that???  My first thought was I had killed my aftermarket rear driveshaft.  

 

I rolled back down and put the truck in park to have a look under and noticed it kept rolling even in park.  Hmmmm....

 

OK, if it's rolling in park that sounds like the parking pawl in the trans broke.  In the old days it wasn't uncommon to hear about people jamming a transmission into park before coming to a complete stop and doing that.  But you wouldn't break something like that doing a hill climb.

 

Well, maybe if the driveshaft was broken and decoupled from the rear and the transfer case clutch was open?  But no, don't think so.

 

I found I could still drive on level ground forward and back, without any scary noises.  So we dove the short distance to the pavement and aired up.  I was hoping I could limp it on home, but heading toward hiway 50 on the 2-lane it started slipping in gear - the engine would rev but no propulsion.  Eventually I lost all drive.  Switched to low range and was able to move again but still with slip.  Not far later that stopped working as well.

 

So Nick towed me the rest of the way to Pollock Pines.  While he was towing us we started getting some nasty noises and vibrations.  

 

Then it was flatbed to home, where I've just unloaded her.  At this point I'm almost certain it's the trans or transfer case, and my money is on the transmission.  I haven't actually crawled under it at all to look other than to see that the rear U-joint is still intact, so there's diag work to do but you know it will be the trans - it's the most expensive part!

 

Actually, I'm not exactly sure how I'm going to verify transmission vs transfer case.  It's not like I can verify output of the transmission separately from the T-case.  

 

This is a new one for me - I can't think of anybody breaking either a trans or TC on an LR3.  I'm sure somebody's done it, but not that I'm aware of.

 


Don
'07 LR3 HSE/HD - slightly non-stock

'96 D1 - even more non-stock


#2
lilcrawler

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It almost sounds like a diff to me, especially if the computer wasn't autolocking the t-case. Especially because of the vibrations while being flat towed. I don't think that a transmission would make nasty noises and vibrations while in Neutral, but I've never had transmission issues before. I'd look at the diffs as the most likely culprit.

Edited by lilcrawler, 06 February 2016 - 10:34 PM.

Tyler
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#3
lutz

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The way you are describing it slipping and then working for a bit in low range sounds like the trans. Could always drain the fluid see if any thing is in there.


KK6QGU
04 Discovery 2-Trail truck- RTE 3in with fox 2.0 shocks, $g rear cones ,$G front bumper with Warn XD9000i custom rear,ARB's air lockers F&R with Ashcroft 4.12 w/reverse cut front , Ashcroft HD axles/CV's, RTE diff guards F&R , Max Yedor HD tie rod and track rod,custom watts, 255/85-16 MAXXIS MT-762 BIGHORN

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#4
lilcrawler

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The way you are describing it slipping and then working for a bit in low range sounds like the trans. Could always drain the fluid see if any thing is in there.


According to Don in the shoutbox, the Lr3 has a clutch based transfer case, unlike the LT230s in our rigs. It could be some weirdness with the computer not wanting to fully lock the transfer case.
Tyler
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#5
DHappel

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Just crawled under the truck and found I might have a bit of luck - the driveshaft DID break, at the CV joint/transmission end.

 

My guess is because the TC can't be manually controlled the computer initially was sending some power to the front to let me move, but it overheated or something and the computer opened the clutch pack.  And without the TC locked, the trans being in park didn't matter - the rear was free to roll since it was no longer connected and the front was open through the TC.

 

I've heard of people popping the CV on aftermarket driveshafts before, so when this first happened that was my initial thought, but I managed to get myself so worked up as things got worse (plus I had time on the tow home to let my imagination run wild)

 

So at least I've got a place to start.  There could still be a problem with the TC or trans, but 


Don
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#6
DHappel

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I wonder if it would have been possible to use the GAP tool to force the TC to lock?  Never tried that.  It would be a handy thing in a situation like this as it seems breaking either front or rear totally disables the truck.

 

Here's the busted CV

 

20160206_223532_zpst0novgrz.jpg

 

20160206_223545_zpsczkngdha.jpg


Don
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'96 D1 - even more non-stock


#7
DHappel

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Thinking about things more, I think I was able to drive out of the trail with the broken driveshaft because I was in rock crawl mode which is more aggressive on the lockers.  Once on pavement I was in normal mode which was inclined to open the center diff.  At least that's a theory anyway.


Don
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'96 D1 - even more non-stock


#8
lutz

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Well good to see it wasn't the trans .


KK6QGU
04 Discovery 2-Trail truck- RTE 3in with fox 2.0 shocks, $g rear cones ,$G front bumper with Warn XD9000i custom rear,ARB's air lockers F&R with Ashcroft 4.12 w/reverse cut front , Ashcroft HD axles/CV's, RTE diff guards F&R , Max Yedor HD tie rod and track rod,custom watts, 255/85-16 MAXXIS MT-762 BIGHORN

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#9
GraemeWare

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Don,

 

If you clear those over-temp faults, will it drive still?  What I can't see is why you had both diff and transfer case over-temp.

Probably better not to find out before changing that shaft.

 

I would have put my money on one of the transmission bands ....

 

 

Regards,

 

Graeme


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#10
DHappel

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I did try to move it under it's own power in the driveway - no go.  I had Michele put it in gear while I was under it (!) and I could see the output immediately started to turn with no drag from the TC to the fronts.  Of course that also meant you couldn't put it in park without the parking pawl making a ratcheting sound because you couldn't make the transmission stop turning even though the truck wasn't moving.  Still the possibility of other damage, but first thing's first let's get the old driveshaft rebuilt and back in.

 

I should have some time monday night to play with it.  I'll either get it up on jack stands and drop the busted driveshaft out, or I'll pull the old driveshaft out of storage and disassemble it in prep for the new center bearing.  For reference, here's why I replaced the old one in the first place:

 

20151209_125544_zpst4fy4nx2.jpg

 

It's a  (not un) common problem for higher mile LR3's to have the center support fail.  The actual bearing is still good, it's just the supporting rubber that has given away.  It wasn't making any bad noises or anything, I just did a check on it when I was doing routine inspections and found it.  That was right before the Jan Rubi run so instead of trying to rebuild the driveshaft (cheaper, but much harder) I just threw an aftermarket piece in.  I figured since there's not much movement in the driveshaft on an IRS truck it wouldn't be too bad.  Mistake.  I'm now 0 for 2 on aftermarket driveline parts.


Don
'07 LR3 HSE/HD - slightly non-stock

'96 D1 - even more non-stock


#11
alpaca

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Id also syphon Some oil out of the fill plugs on tranny n tcase and look at condition of that - that will give you some clue as to what is going on in the box ...

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#12
DavidW

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Wow, Don... I'm sorry about this, but glad you got home safe.


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#13
DHappel

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Just waiting on the new center support to arrive so I can dive back in this weekend. I should also finally have the missing nut for my front CV shafts so I can replace it before it gets any worse. Then pre-pack for the run to Shaver. That should be enough to keep me busy.

Don
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'96 D1 - even more non-stock


#14
lilcrawler

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Just waiting on the new center support to arrive so I can dive back in this weekend. I should also finally have the missing nut for my front CV shafts so I can replace it before it gets any worse. Then pre-pack for the run to Shaver. That should be enough to keep me busy.


Are you sure that it's just the driveshaft that is causing your issue? If not, you may be really busy before Shaver...
Tyler
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#15
DHappel

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No, not 100% sure but pretty sure.

 

If it's more than just the driveshaft then the LR3 isn't going-Full Stop.  In that case I'll probably yank the crappy headliner out of the RRC, throw in a new battery and swap on the other wheels with ancient BFG MTs, and take it.   If I do, I'll check to see if I have any chains laying around that will fit it.  With (almost) no lift, small tires, no lockers, etc it's not the worlds most capable rig.  On the other hand, it's much lighter than the LR3 which likes snow and ice about as much as the Titanic 


Edited by DHappel, 09 February 2016 - 09:42 AM.

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Don
'07 LR3 HSE/HD - slightly non-stock

'96 D1 - even more non-stock


#16
ColinB

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Sound like my last min shaver rush. Good luck.

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#17
DiscoChef

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Don I have some snow chains you're welcome to use. They fit 265-75-18's.
Just in case
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#18
DHappel

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LOL - my RRC has way less tire than that!  I'm not even sure, but probably more like 225/75-16.  

 

'Course the 'new' RRC will have much more tire than that, but since it won't actually be licenced I sorta don't think I'll be driving it.


Don
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'96 D1 - even more non-stock


#19
DHappel

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Update time-

 

FYI, the failed driveshaft came from BuyAutoParts.com  It was $355 vs $700+ from the dealer for a factory part hence why I gave it a try.

 

Yesterday I was able to pull the old driveshaft out and yes, the front CV joint is completely separated.  Unexpectedly I also found the center support had also failed, though this could be a result of driving/towing the truck a few miles with the front of the shaft disconnected.

 

I spoke to BuyAutoParts.com today.  On the plus side, they are located in California and have actual humans who speak english you can talk with.  They are sending me a call-tag for they bad part.  On the negative, they wouldn't simply issue a refund but instead are sending me a new part.  They checked their records and say this is the only one they show having had a failure of many sold.  I suppose it's possible I just got a bad one.  It's more likely the ones they've sold went into mall crawlers that think driving across a gravel parking lot is off-roading.

 

My new center support bearing for the original driveshaft is supposed to be here today.  Yesterday I started trying to take it apart in preperation for installing the new support when it arrived and its...not easy.  Not easy to the point I called Nielo and asked if they had a driveshaft in stock (answer no but they could get one in a few days).  Since I have nothing to loose I'm going to head out to the garage shortly and apply the big hammer to the old driveshaft too see if I can get it apart successfully.  Actually, I'm more worried about getting it back together if/when I do get it apart.

 

So my plan is thus:

Proceed with attempt to rebuild original stock shaft.  If that fails, then in a couple days the replacement aftermarket part will be here and I can throw it in the truck in an hour or two Thursday night before heading to Shaver.  If I do that, I'll go ahead and plan to pick up an OEM part ASAP to replace it as I'll feel like it's a ticking time bomb in there.

 

So Graeme, you might check your sources to see if you can get a complete OEM shaft.  I don't know that I'll need one, but I'd bet you could sell a few if they're available at a reasonable price.  I've seen BritPart makes one, and AB, RoverLand, & Lucky8 have non LR driveshafts for about $400 but I don't know if those are OEM or just generic china-specials.  I don't know who the OEM manufacturer is, GKN maybe?

 

I do know I won't be trying any rock crawling with an unknown aftermarket driveshaft   :)


Don
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'96 D1 - even more non-stock


#20
DHappel

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Carnage photos!

 

The sheet metal part in the middle is a shield that normally goes around the large disc at the right of the pic.  

 

20160211_152859_zpsgbgdclmt.jpg

 

20160211_152811_zpsdj7hdcrc.jpg

 

20160211_152816_zpsl6c1cdri.jpg

 

Here you can see the center support has also failed.  The support and bearing themselves are actually fine but the rubber has come away from the metal hoop that bolts to the underside of the truck.

 

20160211_152908_zpsnaqfrckn.jpg


Don
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'96 D1 - even more non-stock





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