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LR4 / D4 - Intermittent failure, multiple codes thrown

- - - - - LR4 D4 Discovery electrical error code performance cruise control parking brake

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58 replies to this topic

#21
lithium1330

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Oh, not sure if LR's are the same...but most other car manufacturers use a speed/wheel sensor that measures wheel rotation for controlling ABS, stability control. On other cars, sensor is located near the hub. The brakes, stability issues is likely caused by speed sensor, not MAF.
Maybe worth googling "LR4 speed sensor".
Chris

#22
Phil.

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yes A pillar wiring is on the inside. probably lights and airbag. torx bolt behind the airbag cover and it pops right off in case you wanna check those wires.


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#23
Timbo

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I have a digital version of the shop manual.  I'm going to check right now... probably should have thought of that.


Any airbags in there? - my bmw 328 has one running up the A pillar

#24
Jethro

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I have a digital version of the shop manual. I'm going to check right now... probably should have thought of that.

How do I score a copy of that???

#25
GraemeWare

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..... a speed/wheel sensor that measures wheel rotation for controlling ABS, stability control. On other cars, sensor is located near the hub. The brakes, stability issues is likely caused by speed sensor.....

 

I've heard those sensors are very susceptible to coolant leaks at the back of the vehicle .... the water runs down into them and totally destroys them .... takes the dealer three weeks to fix and the cost is about half the national debt .....

 

Graeme


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Graeme Ware -- San Carlos, CA

1990 Range Rover Classic - LT230 Transfer box, Warn winch, 2" lift, 235/85-16 Dunlop MUD Rovers, "Blue Submarine"
1996 Discovery 1 (R380 Manual Transmission, Ashcroft under-drive, RoverWare rear bumper, 33x12.5-15 BFG ATs) -- we call her "Katrina" -- Fordyce 7.5 mile survivor
1999 Discovery 2 (D1 CDL Linkage, 265/75-16 BFG A/T KO, RoverWare front and rear bumper)
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#26
DHappel

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Erin,

 

The only wiring that goes up there is the wiring to the computer that handles the stability control, the parking brake, the cruise control and engine performance issues .....

 

oh, hold on, wrong day ... it is Valentine's Day not "Poisson d'Avril" ....

 

 

Regards,

 

Graeme

You are a cruel, cruel man.

 

:excl: (I was looking for a little devil horns smiley but this is the best I could do)


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#27
DHappel

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So I've been away from my computer all day and I'm only now checking in to find all this fun.

 

If it's related to the snorkel and not a random coincidence, I'm going to bet MAF or possibly something else that got pulled a bit askew when removing the airbox.  I'd suggest for starters popping the MAF harness off and reseating it.  Only takes a minute so nothing to lose there.

 

I don't think we could have gotten to the wiring harness in the A pillar but anything is possible with a Rover.  I've never taken mine down to see how it's all laid out in there.

 

I need to look again at your list of errors, but it sounds like a typical Rover CAN buss cascade effect where one thing causes an error which in turn causes 3 more things to react to it.  I suspect you'll have one basic issue that is causing all the errors.

 

If it returns, pull the codes and write them down.  That might help us focus in on a root cause.


Edited by DHappel, 14 February 2017 - 11:09 PM.

Don
'07 LR3 HSE/HD - slightly non-stock

'96 D1 - even more non-stock


#28
DHappel

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Performance Issue
Parking Brake
Stability Control
Cruise control fault
 
OK, went back and looked it up.  The only one that doesn't fit is parking brake, but then again there are lots of weird interconnectivity things with the busses on these rigs.  The others could all be related to the 'performance issue' which could be MAF related.
 
As to elevation, that's not going to be it.  An overpass isn't going to cause any noticeable pressure change.  I'd be more likely to think you were accelerating harder there to merge and that might be the trigger (?).

Don
'07 LR3 HSE/HD - slightly non-stock

'96 D1 - even more non-stock


#29
RedRover

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Here is the latest update.

 

Last evening, Erin connected her IIDTool to the vehicle and drove around while I examined a time series graph on the iPhone, showing in real time the amount of airflow passing each MAF sensor.

 

We drove around for a while and while we didn't get any error codes or faults, clearly the airflow was substantially different between the two sensors.  Deceleration was the largest gap -- when decelerating and rolling, the non-snorkel side has very low airflow, while the snorkel side is ramming air in 30x-40x greater volume.  This also shows up on the graph where the non-snorkel side craters to the bottom of the graph upon deceleration while the snorkel side slowly drifts down until reaching a stop.  (If we figure out how to export the logs from the IIDTool, I might add graphs here.)

 

My current hypothesis is that Land Rover has the ECU/ECM doing some sort of algorithm that takes readings from both MAFs and computes whether they are within an acceptable range of each other; if multiple readings are out of scope, it triggers a fault.

 

Simply covering a part of the ram air intake portion of the snorkel, I was able to get the readings much closer to each other.

 

As a next troubleshooting step, we turned the air intake opening around so it is no longer facing forward.  Measuring the rates after that change, the two sensors are very close to each other.  I'm hopeful that this will mitigate the issue, but we won't know for a while, especially since we never took airflow measurements prior to the snorkel addition.


Jared (KJ6MQI)
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#30
DiscoDavis

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Interesting that it could be the two sensors registering a difference in air flow. 

 

I too was concerned when I fitted a snorkel about airflow, so I asked GAP for some baseline readings and also provided logs of my own. Somewhere if I can find it I have hours and hours of MAF reading data driving the highways with the snorkel. Can forward to you if it would help (might not since I only had the one intake). What I got from comparing my readings with GAP's was that the snorkel flow difference was acceptable compared to an unmodified intake.

 

How bad was the A pillar drilling, right?  ;) Honestly thought I was going to detonate an airbag with the hammering. 

 

Is the parking brake fault amber or red? If amber sometimes it is the electric switch. I think a new one is ~$50, but you can sometimes get away with just cleaning the connection from the wiring loom in tranny hump to the switch. Worked with mine. 

 

Isn't stability control related to the wheel speed sensor array and the steering angle? Does the warning come up when you turn tightly at speed, say a looping on ramp or cloverleaf? I tried recalibrating the steering angle with the tool and it seemed to help. The DSC sometimes liked to flash and apply the brakes at some tighter turns, got annoying. 


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#31
RedRover

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How bad was the A pillar drilling, right?  ;) Honestly thought I was going to detonate an airbag with the hammering. 

 

 

Speaking of which, I meant to mention that before the drive last night we also did a check on that A pillar.  Removed the interior cover and saw the airbag.  Moved it all around to ensure that the drill never made it through.  It did not.

 

The pillar seems to be made of two pieces of pretty thick steel.  Drilling through the outside makes you bottom out into the 2nd piece of metal... it would take a long, strong drill bit to keep pushing through the other metal.  One would realize something was amiss if you did that.


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#32
erinw.rrc

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So, no codes this morning!  Nothing more exciting than being the first one to experiment on an LR4.  :blink:  (NOT)

 

The wiring harness is located on the inside of the pillar as Graeme mentioned (we checked last night) so no harm done there. 

 

It makes sense that the MAF sensors would be programed for certain parameters and as Jared said, we are probably hitting way outside those with the ram air flow which is throwing codes. 


Erin W.
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#33
DHappel

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I was wondering decent about a differential between the two MAFs causing an error. The readings from an LR3 so that really be relavent here as we're talking about such different systems. I really feel like you. See some sort of cross over between the two to make this viable but that would pose a significant air restriction and be costly on performance and mileage.
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Don
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#34
JFuller

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Are you guys saying that the LR 4 has 2 intakes and the snorkel only attaches to one of them?  What's the point?  



#35
RedRover

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Are you guys saying that the LR 4 has 2 intakes and the snorkel only attaches to one of them? What's the point?


Goal (until the faults suggested otherwise) was to run the raised air intake and block the 2nd intake during dusty convoy conditions using a rubber flap or foam block inside the decorative cover.

Now it looks like that will not be possible without having error codes pop up so not sure what the next step will be right now.

Jared (KJ6MQI)
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#36
GraemeWare

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Are you guys saying that the LR 4 has 2 intakes and the snorkel only attaches to one of them?  What's the point?  

 

“Looking good is more important than looking where you're going.”  - Clarkson

 

 

Regards,

 

Graeme


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Graeme Ware -- San Carlos, CA

1990 Range Rover Classic - LT230 Transfer box, Warn winch, 2" lift, 235/85-16 Dunlop MUD Rovers, "Blue Submarine"
1996 Discovery 1 (R380 Manual Transmission, Ashcroft under-drive, RoverWare rear bumper, 33x12.5-15 BFG ATs) -- we call her "Katrina" -- Fordyce 7.5 mile survivor
1999 Discovery 2 (D1 CDL Linkage, 265/75-16 BFG A/T KO, RoverWare front and rear bumper)
1993 Jaguar XJS convertible; 1971 Triumph GT6; 1959 Morris Minor convertible
other assorted British pot metal ...


#37
erinw.rrc

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I tried to find information online one way or the other and there is nothing, nothing suggesting it will or will not work.  So, my LR4 is pretty much the experiment that went not quite right.  :o


Erin W.
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#38
AlysonH

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Goal (until the faults suggested otherwise) was to run the raised air intake and block the 2nd intake during dusty convoy conditions using a rubber flap or foam block inside the decorative cover.

Now it looks like that will not be possible without having error codes pop up so not sure what the next step will be right now.

Did you already try blocking the other air intake?

#39
AlysonH

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I tried to find information online one way or the other and there is nothing, nothing suggesting it will or will not work. So, my LR4 is pretty much the experiment that went not quite right. :o


Did you call Safari/ARB? That would be my next step.

#40
erinw.rrc

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Did you call Safari/ARB? That would be my next step.

 

I have not, according ARB USA's website, it will work with the 5.0 V8, but I honestly don't think they will actually know.  David West had said the sales guys didn't even know they made a locker for the LR3.  The locker was supposedly supposed to work on LR4's, but it was later released that it doesn't work on the LR4, mostly likely because of the complicated CANbus system. 


Erin W.
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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: LR4, D4, Discovery, electrical, error code, performance, cruise control, parking brake

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