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let's talk heat

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#1
DHappel

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Specifically how hot does your Rover run, how hot is too hot, and things you might do about it.

 

 

Friday on the way to Signal Peak I was running up I80 in the D1, taking it fairly easy at 65-70.  I had the a/c on and of course it was quite hot out - somewhere in the upper 90s I'd guess.

 

The stock temp gauge has proven to be useless - it's less a gauge and more like a warning light that only moves if you actually overheat.  Using my scangauge I can monitor real-time engine temps and see it holding in the 205-215 range while climbing.  Running on flats it still runs around 205 at 70 mph in similar heat with the a/c on.  Of course the stock gauge climbs to just under mid-scale and stays there no matter what. I've never seen it anywhere else even with the scangauge showing between 180 and 215.  

 

First, I'm not happy with that much temp.  It's one thing for it to run that hot climbing but it's still warmer than I'd like at highway speeds.  I'm not sure what temp the thermostat is but I'm not sure a lower temp unit would make much difference.  Let's say it's a 180* or 190*  thermostat - I'm constantly running above there so opening at 170* wouldn't actually lower the engine temps.  

 

The radiator is a newer genuine part in good shape and the stock viscous fan appears to be working correctly.  I have the standard trans cooler as well as a power steering cooler and a/c condenser.  

 

It seems the logical solution would be a bigger radiator.  The truck does have a 4.6 in place of the original 4.0, but I doubt the D2 4.6 radiator is actually any bigger or more efficient.  

 

Before I start thinking about a custom radiator, what temps do you guys normally see on your rigs?  This would be most useful if you have an aftermarket temp gauge since the stock part has shown to be so unbelievable.

 

 

 


Don
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#2
lutz

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I run the grey thermostat 180*  in my d2 .Shes stays around 195 to 200 on hot days or towing the bug.


KK6QGU
04 Discovery 2-Trail truck- RTE 3in with fox 2.0 shocks, $g rear cones ,$G front bumper with Warn XD9000i custom rear,ARB's air lockers F&R with Ashcroft 4.12 w/reverse cut front , Ashcroft HD axles/CV's, RTE diff guards F&R , Max Yedor HD tie rod and track rod,custom watts, 255/85-16 MAXXIS MT-762 BIGHORN

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#3
SLOHybrid

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Don as you know I had heat issues in DV...   I ended up replacing the fan clutch which was the culprit (old working fan clutches also become less efficient over time)  but also replaced the A/C fans which come on when the car is hot with or without the A/C on... I used 2 brand new VDO fan motors ... the old fans believe it or not do become less efficient over time.

VDO PM9115 Condenser Fan Motor

got them on Amazon for $51 each PITA to replace the whole radiator assy needs to be removed... I also had the Radiator rodded .

 

flushed the entire system and added Dex Cool orange oat formula (smells good) 30% mix coolant 70% distilled water.

 

Is running really cool now.

 

Need to hook up a VDO gauge on it to see the actual temps.

 

Going to be doing this set up again on my 94 LWB crawler I am building now


Edited by SLOHybrid, 28 August 2017 - 02:50 PM.

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#4
dcproven

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Don as you know I had heat issues in DV...   I ended up replacing the fan clutch which was the culprit (old working fan clutches also become less efficient over time)  but also replaced the A/C fans which come on when the car is hot with or without the A/C on... I used 2 brand new VDO fan motors ... the old fans believe it or not do become less efficient over time.

VDO PM9115 Condenser Fan Motor

got them on Amazon for $51 each PITA to replace the whole radiator assy needs to be removed... I also had the Radiator rodded .

 

flushed the entire system and added Dex Cool orange oat formula (smells good) 30% mix coolant 70% distilled water.

 

Is running really cool now.

 

Need to hook up a VDO gauge on it to see the actual temps.

 

Going to be doing this set up again on my 94 LWB crawler I am building now

Funny, that is pretty much what I have, including all fans new, works fine so far... no temp on board though, I really need to add that, I had it in my Tdi and loved the peace of mind.



#5
SLOHybrid

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oh! those fans only work on the 95 RRC and D1's.

 

Will have to source something different for my 94 LWB fans.


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#6
AdvRovr

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Dexcool? Egads. That's miserable stuff there. 


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#7
DHappel

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Agreed, I'm not a fan of dexcool.  

 

I haven't addressed anything on the cooling system of this truck as it appears to all work correctly, however after adding the scangauge I realized it's running hotter than I'd like, hence the post.


Don
'07 LR3 HSE/HD - slightly non-stock

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#8
dcproven

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Dexcool? Egads. That's miserable stuff there. 

Don't drink it, man!

Add ice at least :D


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#9
lithium1330

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I have the Ultragauge hooked up, though really haven't driven truck hard to get the temp over 200 (typically hovering around 195 - 197-ish driving around city/town). 

I've read that the 4.6 runs a little hotter in the Defender (it's been said the factory radiator is not sized for a 4.6) Not sure how much of this apply to a D1 though. 


Chris

#10
Disco2Guy

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On the stock t-stat I ran 224* no matter what, except for a few times in DV it went up a little higher. Many years ago when I was running the stock t-stat, it was replaced and the new unit was faulty. The temp kept going up when I drove away from the shop. The needle on the dash starting climbing (from the 3 o'clock position) at 240*, and the overheat light flashed on at 260*. This was right at the time I got back to the shop and no damage was done.

 

Now running the TD5 180* t-stat and get 193-197* consistently.

 

When I was heading to NV (heard some of the Sierra Trek chatter on the way), temps were up to 207* around Donner Pass.


Edited by Disco2Guy, 28 August 2017 - 09:38 PM.

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#11
DHappel

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Jeez...260 is serious danger territory! I get worried at 220 and would be backing off the throttle at that point. I'm amazed you survived at 260 even for a few minutes.

Btw, what is the stock tstat temp on a 4.6?

Don
'07 LR3 HSE/HD - slightly non-stock

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#12
TD1

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In the summer, my old 97 D1 was running 198/205 city/hwy using the Ultraguage and stock t-stat, but I had the 4.0 engine. I only migrated towards 220+ when my fan clutch crapped out or if there was air in the system. Winter hwy I'd get 185. 

 

Couple indy LR techs I talked to mentioned 220 as the beginning of the worry zone and also noted that normal engine operating temp (i.e., 200/205 or so) is probably a bit too high for its own good to begin with and would probably like to see a 180 t-stat installed. Sub 200 seemed to be preferred.


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Tai

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#13
DHappel

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Couple indy LR techs I talked to mentioned 220 as the beginning of the worry zone and also noted that normal engine operating temp (i.e., 200/205 or so) is probably a bit too high for its own good to begin with and would probably like to see a 180 t-stat installed. Sub 200 seemed to be preferred.

While I'm not a Rover V8 expert, I would agree with what you've heard.

 

I think I'm going to try some hood louvers.  Certainly not for everybody but easy and should help lower under-hood temps which will be a good thing given I've recently killed a PS pump (likey due to heat) and heat-soaked a starter to the point it wouldn't engage.  Additionally the lower-hood temps should lower the engine temps for the double whammy.   I can always come back to the traditional techniques later to fight engine temp if needed.


Don
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'96 D1 - even more non-stock


#14
DiscoDavis

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The 200tdi in the 110 is usually 195-200 at the head, 88C stock t-stat (197F). I find it works fine, no heat issues thus far, agree it is kind of warm around 200+. Got it up to 215 when the fan belt snapped once. 

 

But as long as the stat opens at the right temp and the fans can cool the rad I don't mind. Am putting a VDO water temp gauge in place of the stock one. D3 motor also ran an 88C stat and did fine. I think the right idea is Solis' and others doing the fan clutch swap for an electric model.

 

you could always try an 85 degree stat? Is that the next one down? Or 82C=180F (in the Td5 example).


Edited by DiscoDavis, 29 August 2017 - 09:42 AM.

:lr:

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#15
AdvRovr

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Granted, these are an older motor design with different design specs, but BMWs run very hot as part of the design. Operating temp on the 90s-00's V8s was 105C, which is right around 220F. T-stat won't even open until then. They also have a dampened temp gauge (as do most modern vehicles) and the needle wouldn't start rising for another 10*C+ above that.

 

I'm not surprised Brenton's truck didn't have any catastrophic damage at that point. I don't think it's ideal, but I don't know that it's a big deal either. Maybe just some better heat shielding around the starter and call it a day? 


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#16
lutz

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While I'm not a Rover V8 expert, I would agree with what you've heard.

 

I think I'm going to try some hood louvers.  Certainly not for everybody but easy and should help lower under-hood temps which will be a good thing given I've recently killed a PS pump (likey due to heat) and heat-soaked a starter to the point it wouldn't engage.  Additionally the lower-hood temps should lower the engine temps for the double whammy.   I can always come back to the traditional techniques later to fight engine temp if needed.

Just roadkill it and run no hood :P


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http://www.pacificadventuretours.com/


#17
dcproven

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My understanding is that this old V8 are meant to run sort of hot anyway... but it might be an emissions thing



#18
DiscoDavis

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My understanding is that this old V8 are meant to run sort of hot anyway... but it might be an emissions thing

 

That is my understanding as well. 


:lr:

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#19
DHappel

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'older' V8s, meaning a typical chevy or Ford, were designed to run cooler.  180 would be a good temp for them.  As emissions became stricter the temps went up and modern engines run much hotter than the 'traditional' american V8 of the 60s-70s-80s.  

 

I don't know what the design temp for a 4.6 is which is why I asked what the stock tstat was.  I'm sure it's hotter than is ideal since it's actually a very old design that was hacked and bandaged up to keep limping along into the mid 2000s.  We all know head gasket failures are far too common on these motors and one big factor is overheating.

 

However, if you have a 100* or 200* thermostat doesn't matter if the rest of the cooling system can't keep pace.  Once the tstat is open, if the temps keep climbing then the problems lie elsewhere.  In 100* heat, pulling a grade, at highway speed, with the AC on, I'm seeing temps around 212-215* and I'm sure that would go up if I pushed it harder.  That tells me the cooling system can't keep up with the demands of the engine under heavy loads.  A lower temp tstat may help keep the engine temps down under lesser conditions, and may be something I'll put in, but it's not my main issue.

 

This morning I ordered some hood louvers and hope to install and test them this weekend at the MORG.  That should reduce under-hood heat which will be good for all the peripherals such as the starter and PS pump, plus everything else, and though it won't directly affect the engine it should reduce it's temp as well by virtue of the radiator getting better airflow though it and less heat-soak.  

 

This doesn't actually 'fix' anything, then again I'm not sure I actually have anything wrong.  That's why I was curious what the normal operating temp for a 4.6 is and how much over/under it I may be.  The fact that the stock gauge reads just under half way makes me think the truck is OK with those temps, but on the other hand I'm not so sure *I* am OK with them.


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Don
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#20
dcproven

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hood louvers would push air in moving the heat downwards where the starter and other stuff like the ZF is, wouldn't it?

I am not sure I would do that modification, is all I am saying, but if you try, please tell us how does it perform...






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